I think the people on Dream's side are overlooking genuinely concerning behaviours from Dream, simply because they believe Tommy is "more wrong."

This post isn't to discuss my beliefs of whether Tommy or Dream are more or less in the wrong than each other. That's not relevant to the point I'm trying to make.

I think Tommy brought up one pressing concern that, while not elaborated on as much as I wish it had been, has been gnawing at my brain for a while.

There are a lot of creators, from Dream's ex-circle or even those who have just met him once or twice at conventions, who are very strong on the point of him and his friends having questionable interactions with women. I think someone like Ludwig bringing it up on stream despite generally staying quite impartial is - perhaps not telling, but rather concerning. And the actual interaction Dream and Ludwig had contributes to that - ie. not being able to keep track of what "whore-calling" event Ludwig was referring to.

Andivmg's experiences with Dream are also wildly overlooked for as serious as they are. This person has screenshots from Andi's tumblr, and I suggest you support Andi on her platforms. I just don't have tumblr. I think his behaviour that Andi highlights is definitely quite... different from the behaviour Dream has led most to believe he conveys in private, and would seem "out of character" if not for the several allegations he has of acting like this behind the scenes.

Anyway, I'm not the right person to go compiling these sources/allegations. I have a 9-5 and just have a childish obsession with years-old drama. Make fun of me for that all you want, I'll cop it on the chin. But my point here is - I don't think there's any weight to claiming that these misogyny allegations only exist because everyone hates him and look for the worst. Or that Tommy/his friend group have influenced people to feel this way. Half of the people who have commented on Dream's behind the scenes behaviour are not Tommy's friends. Acquaintances/peers, maybe. But many of these people aren't out to get creators constantly, or have even been supportive of Dream in the past (eg. Ludwig pre-"whore" comment, Mysticat, Hannah (? unsure on her)).

I'm concerned that people leaning towards Dream's defense because of the valid complaints he may have against Tommy (again, not what I'm aiming to comment on) may then overlook the genuinely concerning things that are slowly coming out against him. We have enough bits and pieces of actual evidence (from people like Ludwig, Robbo and Andi) that show he does at least have some... issues, with appropriate interactions. And that provides a lot of validity to people who have called out his/his friend group's misogyny, but perhaps been less comfortable posting "receipts." But Dream doesn't bring attention to these, potentially because Tommy and Tubbo aren't the right people to be speaking for the affected (female) parties apart from a general "I/we have a lot of women friends who have commented on your misogynistic behaviour." And because Dream's barely commenting on them, it's easy for those on his side to overlook them. Or - alternatively - find shaky reasons to call Tommy a hypocrite/misogynistic himself. Which I think most reasonable people would disagree with. The only thing I've seen people bring up against him is that he "made sexist jokes towards Molly on camera, just think about what he's like off camera." But this is disingenuous. The comments on camera were clearly those Molly was comfortable with, Tommy was satirising actual misogyny in an obvious manner, and despite being broken up Molly is also actively on Tommy's side. Take from that what you will.

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Now where I am going to post my opinion on Dream v Tommy in a nutshell - I'm on the side of believing the misogyny accusations for all the reasons above. And normally, someone who acts in a misogynistic way won't have a flawless personality. And we know Dream is far from flawless. Perhaps he's overcritiqued by standards others aren't, but the criticism rarely if ever starts from absolutely nothing. Hence, when Tommy comments on how he felt treated while he was 16 on the DSMP; when adults around him at the time agreed; when someone like Phil outwardly voiced distaste towards Dream even while the DSMP was happening; and when he has support of communities even completely separate from DSMP/not at all friends with "the Brighton group," I tend to believe him. Especially alongside how Dream handled Tubbo's concerns of porn being shown in the DSMP discord. The immediate reaction to deflect with "well I wasn't doing it" was concerning, then to say "They asked us to treat them like adults" made it worse - my point is that the fact it took him several statements to get to the morally correct "I'm the server owner, I'm responsible for what happened in there" is a bit of a red flag to me. Does that mean Dream should've been called a pedo by Tommy behind the scenes even pre-allegations, no not really. Does that excuse the USMP/QSMP things Tommy was involved in, probably not but also the details of that whole thing come across very confusing even with Dream's receipts. Not to excuse Tommy, but him "clout chasing" by sucking up to Dream at the time only seems odd to me since at that point Quackity's server was both getting more attention, and he had the better image in the eyes of social media. I'm not saying what Dream said was unfounded, rather I think the situation is far more complex than anyone has so far shown.

Essentially, I don't feel comfortable supporting Dream knowing what has been shown and what I can infer. And unfortunately, I think a lot of otherwise reasonable people would feel the same, but are being swayed by how the allegations are being presented by the two major parties in the drama (Dream and Tommy). Tommy's a man who shouldn't be speaking for the affected women, and Dream's only really responding to him and not others. So it's hard for the more pressing evidence to emerge, if that makes sense.

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BUT - my mostly-siding with Tommy has little to do with why I think many of you should be more concerned with the allegations of misogyny. I hope I've explained myself well, I hope we can have a civil discussion here, and I'm happy to clarify on any points. Thanks for reading, I know I'm not very concise.

EDIT: Also - this is gonna probably get me more replies than anything else I say here. But I wanted to say, I never thought the Caiti case was open and shut. There's still a lot of ambiguity, details we don't have, faults in the presentation by both sides, and my point here is there is still space - with what little we know - for George to have done a fair amount of wrong that night. I'm not saying he's the devil, we don't know enough. But I think as time has passed, the narrative in this sub has gone from "Both sides likely have different views of what happened and it's hard to completely villainize George" to now "Caiti was wrong, her friends manipulated her, and George did nothing wrong". When realistically, we've gotten practically no new information since the original few streams happened. The timeline and the events are still hyper ambiguous, and again my point is that there is still a lot of room where George could've done a lot of wrong. And it's not a closed case. I think that situation could still be contributing to quite a lot of hesitance to support Dream against any accusations of misogyny against him.